Peltier / TEC Resources and Info, New combined sticky! Options

[Guest_pizzaboy_*]

i might sound like a complete w***er but would someone explain what a pelt is ,and what it does and if they're easy to deal with, and most important of all does it improve computer performance

[Ghostface]

My simple summary is it's a little square with electric running thru...
Whilst the electric runs thru, one side gets very hot & the other side gets very cold.
ya use the cold side to cool ur CPU but you have to cool the hot side down (waterblock, ect)
Named after the inventor; Professor W. Richard Peltier.

I've never used a Peltier, but i've just been looking into them cos i thought about trying them out,
but i have decided to try Phasechange next instead.

[Rushifell]

http://thetechzone.com/articles/peltier_intro/index.html


in a nutshell....

[Marci]

For an installation guide for TECs on your CPU using a Maze4-1 block, see HERE



The pic above shows the average pelt in action kinda thang...

As the guys above have said, it's basically a grid of metal conductors that move electrons from one side of the device to the other. One side gets cold, the other side gets hot. Either side of this grid is a thin ceramic sheeting. The entire lot is then bonded round the edges to seal it (ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOUR PELTS COME PRE-BONDED / EPOXIED!!)

They aren't actually called pelts. That's the name of the guy that invented them... but hey-ho, that's what we all know em by nowadays... so anyways....

For a CPU you need a 220w pelt nowadays. For a graphics card, 156w, and for your northbridge an 80w usually does the job. People very rarely use all 3 together tho...

Firstly, you mask off the CPU Socket Pin holes. Then you get a can of spray-on Silicon Conformal Coating, and cover center of the cpu socket, and spray a good 2" all the way round the edge of the CPU socket. Mask off any AGP slots, RAM Slots, or Northbridge chips etc as if the coating gets on these it'll stop stuff working (to put it basically) and if it gets on the northbridge chip then you'll lose conductivity between the chip and whatever heatsink you apply. Next, once that's dried, you have to fill the center of the cpu socket with dielectric grease, and I do mean fill it, right up to just above the surface of the socket. Next you fill the pin holes within the socket...

Then you smear dielectric grease all the way round the socket, and add layers of neoprene foam to condensation seal the cold are of your pelt block (ie, from the copper plate of your waterblock all the way down to the board must be filled with foam.) Condensation occurs when warm air hits a cold item. It condenses and in our case generally freezes into ice on your block. When you turn off your PC, this defrosts all over your mobo, cpu, graphics card etc etc. Bad News. So condensation proofing your board before use is essential.

The image below shows the view down onto the socket.



As you can see, the condensation proofing surrounds the ENTIRE socket and a good few cm's all the way round. You cut the foam out and apply a good layer of dielectric grease to the surface of the foam which will be in contact with the baord, and the surface of the sides of the square cut away for the socket. You then push this on top, and seal round where it meets the socket. Now, drop in your cpu, and cut a VERY thin piece of foam (about 0.7mm thick) to use as a shim ontop of your cpu (remembering of course to cut a hole slightly bigger than the core so that the core itself makes direct contact with the coldplate). Add a thin layer of dielectric to both sides of this and pop it ontop of your processor. Then apply your AS3 to the core of the chip.
Now turn over your mobo, spray the SAME surface area on the back of your board (as covered by your neoprene on the front-side of the board) with silicon conformal coating. Let it dry. Apply a layer of dielectric grease, and then place a rectangle of 1mm/2mm Neoprene onto this. This prevents any condensation buildup on the BACK of your motherboard. The aim of all this condensation proofing is to stop ANY air getting to the surfaces that the pelt will be cooling down to lower-than-ambient temperature, as that's where condensation will occur.

Now, get your pelt and a PC Power Supply.

Plug the PSU ito the mains and get it turned on, and take the pelt between finger and thumb. Get someone else to hold the black wire into a black contact on a 4pin molex on the psu, then gently touch the red wire into a yellow socket. Only do this for a fraction of a second. Leave it a second, do it again. You should be able to feel either your thumb or finger get cold. Whichever side gets cold, just put a dot on it with a pencil so that you know for later on. Next, hold the pelt over your socket with the coldside pointing down towards the CPU, and cut two slits in the neoprene foam for the wires to pass thru, then smear dielectric grease into those slits. Put the pelt to one side.

Turn to your copper coldplate next. Place a small drop of AS3 onto a piece of plastic, and run it into the base of the coldplate to fill any small anomalies in the surface. Cover the other side with a clear silicon based thermal compound (not AS3). Place the COLD side of the pelt onto this surface... then cover the hot side of the pelt with another layer of clear silicon compound, and plonk this side onto the base of your waterblock. Then cover the SIDES of the coldplate, edges of the pelt, and any overhanging base of your waterblcok with dielectric grease. Place all of this into the hole cut in the foam. If you've measured everything right then it will sit perfectly atop your CPU. tighten down your mounting mechanism and job done! Pelt fitted and condensation proofed...

The hot side MUST be actively cooled (by water preferably and a 2x120mm rad minimum) whenever the pelt is powered up. At no time should you run the pelt without active cooling on the hotside, and at no time should you run the pelt and watercooling system WITHOUT the rad-fans running. The water in your system will just boil and blow a hole in the weakest points in your system, usually your rad and around your barb seals of your block. A quick safety measure is, on the TOP surface of your radiator, drill a small hole then put a blob of silicon sealant on top to seal the hole back up. Now, if the water ever does boil for whatever reason, this will be the point to go, rather than damaging anywhere else in your system. And if it does go, it should just release pressure thru a pinhole leak in the silicon, which will reseal itself when it cools back down again. Make sure that this hole is in a position where if it DOES ever leak it won't leak onto anything essential or electrically live in your rig. I have a small metal box kinda thang under mine with a piece of sponge in to catch anything as generally it jsut vents steam if it happens and a tiny amount of water. BUT if you HADN'T drilled this hole in the res and applied silicon sealant, then it's highly likely that your tubing or something else would've given way first that would've caused a LOT more damage. Your waterblock's base MUST be equal to or greater than the pelt that your applying to it, and the area in contact with the pelt should be entirely copper.

Few pointers.

You CANNOT use a PC Power Supply to power both your PC and your Pelt. Non exist that are strong enough and you WILL damage your system if you try it. At a push you can get away with using a 520 or 550w psu to power the PELT ON IT'S OWN, but it generally won't last long, and will under-power the pelt. Proper PSUs are available from Meanwell and other companies (see swiftech's website at www.swiftnets.com) and cost around £100. You MUST ensure that the PSU used can provide adequate WATTAGE and AMPAGE. These are the 2 crucial factors. You can run a 15v Pelt on 12v quite happily, it just won't perform as well as it would on 15v. BUT if you use a PSU that can't provide the correct ampage then eventually that PSU will blow, or the Pelt will.

So, that is THE BASICS of using/installing pelts. I could go into more detail.... but I'm saving that for the DangerDen installation manuals I'm writing, which I'll share with you all here on the forums when they're done (DangerDen make a pre-fitted Pelt-waterblock)

A quick run down on what I use in my Pelt rig:

DangerDen Maze3-1 PeltBlock
226w Pelt
Meanwell S-320-12 Pelt PSU
TC3x120 Radiator
3x YSTech 120mm Fans
1x Z-chispet Northbridge Waterblock
1x GPU Waterblock
12x 1/2" hoseclips
1x Eheim 1250 pump
1x DangerDen Clear Reservoir
3 mtrs 1/2" ID Tubing (Clearflex)
1x tube of Dielectric Grease
1x Can of silicon conformal coating
1x tube of AS3
1x tube of clear silicon based thermal compound
1x craft knife
1x roll masking tape
4x sheets 5mm Neoprene
0.5mtrs of 25A single-core mains wire (for connecting pelt to pelt PSU)
1x length of 3core mains (whatever length you need from pelt psu to mains plug) and a plug to go on the end
2x Swiftech Pump Relays RevII (50A Inrush supported)
(1 for your pump, 1 for your pelt psu)

That's more or less everything you need to pelt cool your CPU, and watercool your Northbridge and GPU.
This maintains my rig at 2.6Ghz under 100% load at 12 degrees at the moment using 1.95v on CPU Core. At stock speeds of 2Ghz (XP2400+) the system when idleing gets down to around -10 degrees, and under load sits at -6 degrees.</font>

TEC Wattage / Voltage Charts

I 'nicked this from bl**dy Sorcerer from over at XS forums, thanks mate

It's not going to be 100% as it's worked from formula Q=2*Qmax*I%-Qmax*(I%)^2 where I%=volts/VMax but is really as accurate as it needs to be to figure out if your TEC is gonna handle what you need it to handle at a given voltage.

Hope it helps out over here

80 watt / 16.1 VMax / 8.0 IMax

5 volts: 41.9 watts; 2.48 amps
6 volts: 48.5 watts; 2.98 amps
7 volts: 54.4 watts; 3.47 amps
8 volts: 59.7 watts; 3.97 amps
9 volts: 64.4 watts; 4.47 amps
10 volts: 68.5 watts; 4.96 amps
11 volts: 71.9 watts; 5.46 amps
12 volts: 74.8 watts; 5.96 amps
13 volts: 77.0 watts; 6.45 amps
14 volts: 78.6 watts; 6.95 amps
15 volts: 79.6 watts; 7.45 amps
16 volts: 79.9 watts; 7.95 amps


120 watts / 24.6 VMax / 7.9 IMax

5 volts: 43.8 watts; 1.60 amps
6 volts: 51.3 watts; 1.92 amps
7 volts: 58.5 watts; 2.24 amps
8 volts: 65.3 watts; 2.56 amps
9 volts: 71.7 watts; 2.89 amps
10 volts: 77.7 watts; 3.21 amps
11 volts: 83.3 watts; 3.53 amps
12 volts: 88.5 watts; 3.85 amps
13 volts: 93.3 watts; 4.17 amps
14 volts: 97.7 watts; 4.49 amps
15 volts: 101.7 watts; 4.81 amps
16 volts: 105.3 watts; 5.13 amps
17 volts: 108.5 watts; 5.45 amps
18 volts: 111.3 watts; 5.78 amps
19 volts: 113.7 watts; 6.1 amps
20 volts: 115.8 watts; 6.42 amps
21 volts: 117.4 watts; 6.74 amps
22 volts: 118.6 watts; 7.06 amps
23 volts: 119.4 watts; 7.38 amps
24 volts: 119.9 watts; 7.70 amps


169 watt / 16.4 VMax / 16.1 IMax

5 volts: 87.3 watts; 4.90 amps
6 volts: 101.0 watts; 5.89 amps
7 volts: 113.4 watts; 6.87 amps
8 volts: 124.6 watts; 7.85 amps
9 volts: 134.5 watts; 8.83 amps
10 volts: 143.2 watts; 9.81 amps
11 volts: 150.6 watts; 10.79 amps
12 volts: 156.8 watts; 11.78 amps
13 volts: 161.7 watts; 12.76 amps
14 volts: 165.3 watts; 13.74 amps
15 volts: 167.7 watts; 14.72 amps
16 volts: 168.9 watts; 15.70 amps


172 watt / 24.6 VMax / ??? IMax

5 volts: 62.8 watts
6 volts: 73.6 watts
7 volts: 83.9 watts
8 volts: 93.6 watts
9 volts: 102.8 watts
10 volts: 111.4 watts
11 volts: 119.4 watts
12 volts: 126.8 watts
13 volts: 133.7 watts
14 volts: 140.0 watts
15 volts: 145.8 watts
16 volts: 150.9 watts
17 volts: 155.5 watts
18 volts: 159.6 watts
19 volts: 163.0 watts
20 volts: 165.9 watts
21 volts: 168.3 watts
22 volts: 170.0 watts
23 volts: 171.2 watts
24 volts: 171.9 watts


226 watt / 15.2 VMax / 24 IMax

5 volts: 124.2 watts; 7.89 amps
6 volts: 143.2 watts; 9.47 amps
7 volts: 160.2 watts; 11.05 amps
8 volts: 175.2 watts; 12.63 amps
9 volts: 188.4 watts; 14.21 amps
10 volts: 199.5 watts; 15.78 amps
11 volts: 208.7 watts; 17.36 amps
12 volts: 215.9 watts; 18.94 amps
13 volts: 221.2 watts; 20.52 amps
14 volts: 224.5 watts; 22.10 amps
15 volts: 225.9 watts; 23.68 amps


320 watt / 15.2 VMax / 26 IMax

5 volts: 175.9 watts
6 volts: 202.7 watts
7 volts: 226.8 watts
8 volts: 248.2 watts
9 volts: 266.7 watts
10 volts: 282.5 watts
11 volts: 295.5 watts
12 volts: 305.8 watts
13 volts: 313.3 watts
14 volts: 318.0 watts
15 volts: 319.9 watts


437 watt / 26.7 VMax / 32.8 IMax

5 volts: 148.3 watts; 6.14 amps
6 volts: 174.3 watts; 7.37 amps
7 volts: 199.1 watts; 8.59 amps
8 volts: 222.6 watts; 9.82 amps
9 volts: 244.9 watts; 11.05 amps
10 volts: 266.0 watts; 12.28 amps
11 volts: 285.9 watts; 13.51 amps
12 volts: 304.5 watts; 14.74 amps
13 volts: 321.9 watts; 15.97 amps
14 volts: 338.1 watts; 17.19 amps
15 volts: 353.0 watts; 18.42 amps
16 volts: 366.8 watts; 19.65 amps
17 volts: 379.3 watts; 20.88 amps
18 volts: 390.6 watts; 22.11 amps
19 volts: 400.6 watts; 23.34 amps
20 volts: 409.4 watts; 24.56 amps
21 volts: 417.0 watts; 25.79 amps
22 volts: 423.4 watts; 27.02 amps
23 volts: 428.6 watts; 28.25 amps
24 volts: 432.5 watts; 29.48 amps
25 volts: 435.2 watts; 30.71 amps
26 volts: 436.7 watts; 31.94 amps


Cheers

Gray

[Marci]

Now, bear in mind the above is THE BASICS for using and installing pelts, after reading thru that, if you think you can do it then you probably can in which case go ahead and get yourself some pelts n get on with it! If reading the above scares ya, stick with watercooling. Do not advance to phasechange as you have to go thru ALL the same crap for condensation sealing etc. The only bit that you step over is the pelt & the pelt PSU, and the watercooling kit (unless you wanna cool GPU & NB in which case you'll still want a water rig, as phasechange just plugs straight onto CPU only)

All I can say is, I find Pelt's fun!!

[Marci]

Shifted to WaterCooling Support, as if you're using Pelts or thinking about it, then you should have or be planning to get a water kit to cool em with!

:cool:

[Ghostface]

Wow...
That is the best info i've read on Pelt's.
So informative!

Still not changed my mind about them, Still gonna be phase change for me next...

& i'll use my black ice extreme on my NB & GPU

[Guest_pizzaboy_*]

thanks for replying to my post guys ,ididnt realise it was so complicated ,ill stick to basic water cooling for now ,as all that info that marci just posted scares the sh*t out of me,thanks for the long explantion marci!!!

[[O-CuK]ukdave]

i think thats probably the best thing to do. best to get good knowledge of watercooling before moving onto other, more complicated methods such as pelitiers.

[KenShiRo]

"Meanwell S-320-12 Pelt PSU"

how big are power supplys for pelts and where's the best place to fit one in ya case?

[Marci]

<font color='#000000'>This particular PSU is slightly wider than a 3.5" HDD< slightly higher than a 5.25" CD-Rom, so it can be mounted internally, as shown in the following pic...



The silver thing on the right hand side about halfway up is the pelt PSU.</font>

[TacticalMayhem]

well was think about fitting a pelt - after reading this and totaly and uttuly pooing my pants i think ill leave it to the pro's allthough i realy would lkie one in the future. ill wait till i have more experance with water cooling first before ever attempting a pelt.

Thankyou for a very uptodate info on the pelt and how to fit one...

[Mr Pink]

can pelts be used on radeon VPUs? could i use 1 pelt power supply to supply power to 2 pelts? im having doubts whether i can fit 2 pelts, and a water cooling system in a chieftec dragon...maybe it could be ok

[Marci]

Yes you can pelt a gpu.... all the above theory still applies. You use a 156w pelt instead of a 220w. Depends on the total wattage of the pelts in question as to whether they can be used from one powersupply. The Supply we sell will power ONE pelt (220w or 156w) or 2x80w.

The problem comes in the fact that you can't pelt the gpu 24/7, as standard windows use doesn't put enough load on to stop the pelt freezing up and icing up your graphics card.

[Mr Pink]

what if i o/c it stupidly high? how cool could a 80w pelt keep a cpu and gpu? at sub zero temp still, i cant afford 2 MeanWell s320-12 TEC PSUs

thanx in advance

[Marci]

You can run ONE 80w off a standard PC Psu, or 1x 156w off a standard PC PSU, but generally it has to be a separate one, not the same as you run yer rig off. Check the ampage on the PC Power supplies 12v rail, make sure it meets the ampage of the pelt in question. If u clock the card up to it's knackers then IN THEORY you shouldn't have a prob, but personally I wouldn't risk it... Mav did, and found he had an icy card fairly rapidly... er.... have a search for a post by Meta-Morphis asking if "something is a daft idea" or summat along those lines as he asked about this a few weeks back... and everyone replied with all the info...

[Mr Pink]

i cant find that post, oh well, i wouldnt want 2 risk it...im goin 2 get a p4 2.4c, instead of the 2500+ barton, and use that 220 watt pelt to cool it and then use water cooling on it and the chipset, only thing is, that after reading the crack pcb horror storys, i dont think i wil risk water cooling the 9800 pro 256mb with ddr ii (), and jus leave it with stock cooling, or till a time where i feel adventurous

thanks for the help with these pelts, be buying one soon!

[Marci]

gizza 3dMark score link fer your card, seeing as you're the only person in the UK I know who has one... wouldn't mind knowin what DDRII scores at default vs the standard 9800 Pro.

[Marci]

http://forums.over-clock.co.uk/cgi-bin....4;t=207

[BluD]

Yeah plz could ya post your 3dmark scores.
I was thinking of upgrading to one when theyre out.
Im running @ 2.4 gigz 512ddr 3200 and a gf3ti200@210x450
And i got 1046 3dmark2003 points so i think theres a little room for improvement.  :D